Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
Silver Eagle
>
...
I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
...
> Brian
> TeamGreenDragon
Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
39 messages in this thread |
Started on 2009-07-30
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Silver Eagle (sileagle@windstream.net) |
Date: 2009-07-30 14:04:28 UTC
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Lightnin Bug (rpboehme@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 15:27:12 UTC
To build on what SE mentions, and to give Ryan some benefit of the doubt - the perception I have is that he is merely bowing to market forces (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties, boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider letterboxing!", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an excellent job creating it.
In a way it is a vicious cycle (dumbing down may begat more dumbing down as the requests become more and more inane in the eyes of some). Interestingly and perhaps ironically, some of those who hyperventilated for some of the cute dumb-downs are now starting to complain about some continued dumbing down themselves. There is also the GC.com raised boxers who occiasionally attempt to influence the site towards being more like GC.com and this often leads to discussion.
Take it for what its' worth, as it is what it is.
LB
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Silver Eagle" wrote:
>
> Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
>
> As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> >
> ...
> I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
> ...
> > Brian
> > TeamGreenDragon
>
In a way it is a vicious cycle (dumbing down may begat more dumbing down as the requests become more and more inane in the eyes of some). Interestingly and perhaps ironically, some of those who hyperventilated for some of the cute dumb-downs are now starting to complain about some continued dumbing down themselves. There is also the GC.com raised boxers who occiasionally attempt to influence the site towards being more like GC.com and this often leads to discussion.
Take it for what its' worth, as it is what it is.
LB
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Silver Eagle"
>
> Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
>
> As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> >
> ...
> I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
> ...
> > Brian
> > TeamGreenDragon
>
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: sewsowbizzy (sowbiz@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 16:28:59 UTC
To me it is like my having two dental plans. One for general care and the other for root canals.
Now which one would AQ represent??
ssb
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Silver Eagle" wrote:
>
> Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
>
> As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> >
> ...
> I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
> ...
> > Brian
> > TeamGreenDragon
>
Now which one would AQ represent??
ssb
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Silver Eagle"
>
> Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
>
> As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> >
> ...
> I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
> ...
> > Brian
> > TeamGreenDragon
>
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Debra Farrell (debrafarrell1@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 12:16:40 UTC-07:00
Saying good-bye...
One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
Will see you nice folks on AQ.
Cya - DaResq
http://www.sourcescns.com
Co-Founder
Open Arms Pound Rescue
http://www.openarmspoundrescue.com
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, sewsowbizzy wrote:
From: sewsowbizzy
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:28 PM
To me it is like my having two dental plans. One for general care and the other for root canals.
Now which one would AQ represent??
ssb
--- In letterbox-usa@ yahoogroups. com, "Silver Eagle" wrote:
>
> Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the
folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
>
> As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> >
> ...
> I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
> ...
> > Brian
> > TeamGreenDragon
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
Will see you nice folks on AQ.
Cya - DaResq
http://www.sourcescns.com
Co-Founder
Open Arms Pound Rescue
http://www.openarmspoundrescue.com
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, sewsowbizzy
From: sewsowbizzy
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 12:28 PM
To me it is like my having two dental plans. One for general care and the other for root canals.
Now which one would AQ represent??
ssb
--- In letterbox-usa@ yahoogroups. com, "Silver Eagle"
>
> Good question, and one that I have pondered many times. I guess one reason is that it happened gradually. When Ryan first created AQ, my understanding was that he would add capabilities that LBNA did not have at that time (e.g. letterboxes outside North America, thus the name Atlas Quest), so I thought it would be a good companion to LBNA. I would have preferred Ryan use his considerable computer skills to help LBNA webmasters fix their site instead of creating his own, but his vision was too big for that. I was afraid his site, with its own database of clues and forums, would be divisive to the letterboxing community, and to some extent that has happened. I find this very ironic since Ryan used to complain about Steve Rayvenhaus doing the same thing with his LB World site about 5 years ago. It also seems wrong that he makes money from his site while LBNA webmasters are strictly volunteer. It makes me want to say "Thank You" again to all the
folks that created and help maintain LBNA.
>
> As far as Ryan deciding the future of letterboxing, I'm not sure he should get total blame for that. After all, one person can't make anyone follow and just because AQ exists doesn't mean you have to use it. But the fact that so many do, must mean that they prefer this style of letterboxing. Maybe it is just the natural evolution of letterboxing that would have happened without AQ, but we will never know.
>
> Silver Eagle
>
> >
> ...
> I'd like to ask questions like: Why has the the general population just excepted that one person making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future of what letterboxing is and will become? (I know this isn't really fair to ask right now, because that person is on vacation in Spain at the moment).
> ...
> > Brian
> > TeamGreenDragon
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 19:51:12 UTC
-I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion. Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the time there's a AQ chat group for that.
OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do? Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the big list of old.....
-- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Debra Farrell wrote:
>
> Saying good-bye...
> One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
>
> I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
> I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
>
> Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > http://www.sourcescns.com
>
>
OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do? Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the big list of old.....
-- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Debra Farrell
>
> Saying good-bye...
> One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
>
> I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
> I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
>
> Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > http://www.sourcescns.com
>
>
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-07-30 19:57:36 UTC
don my asbestos underwear
Please use a Capital when using my name.
Don
Please use a Capital when using my name.
Don
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Mark Pepe (mjpepe1@comcast.net) |
Date: 2009-07-30 20:01:48 UTC
I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers get insulted and don't stay on this list.
Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of everyone on this list.
We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list was where part of the game was played.
We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a statement.
Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
Just an observation . . .
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "mizscarlet731"
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
-I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion. Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the time there's a AQ chat group for that.
OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do? Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the big list of old.....
-- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com , Debra Farrell wrote:
>
> Saying good-bye...
> One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
>
> I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
> I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
>
> Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > http://www.sourcescns.com
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of everyone on this list.
We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list was where part of the game was played.
We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a statement.
Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
Just an observation . . .
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "mizscarlet731"
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
-I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion. Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the time there's a AQ chat group for that.
OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do? Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the big list of old.....
-- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com , Debra Farrell
>
> Saying good-bye...
> One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
>
> I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
> I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
>
> Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > http://www.sourcescns.com
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 20:05:13 UTC
--Good point Mark, I think you may have hit the nail on the head. Who is still here anyway? I know alot of folks read and don't post.
- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pepe wrote:
>
> I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers get insulted and don't stay on this list.
>
> Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of everyone on this list.
> We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list was where part of the game was played.
> We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a statement.
>
> Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
>
> Just an observation . . .
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mizscarlet731"
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion. Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do? Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the big list of old.....
>
> -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com , Debra Farrell wrote:
> >
> > Saying good-bye...
> > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
> >
> > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
> > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
> >
> > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pepe
>
> I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers get insulted and don't stay on this list.
>
> Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of everyone on this list.
> We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list was where part of the game was played.
> We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a statement.
>
> Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
>
> Just an observation . . .
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mizscarlet731"
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion. Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do? Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the big list of old.....
>
> -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com , Debra Farrell
> >
> > Saying good-bye...
> > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative, hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody forces anyone.
> >
> > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and learn something.
> > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described above.
> >
> > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 20:06:42 UTC
--Love you too Sweetie.
In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gwendontoo" wrote:
>
> don my asbestos underwear
>
> Please use a Capital when using my name.
>
> Don
>
In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "gwendontoo"
>
> don my asbestos underwear
>
> Please use a Capital when using my name.
>
> Don
>
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Elizabeth Thompson (zorket@gmail.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 18:33:46 UTC-04:00
I'd have to wholeheartedly agree with Mark - the innuendo is what makes
things fun. but things always "sound" different in print than they do when
someone says something...and if you don't know anything about the person it
is coming from it can often sound insulting. I don't intentionally insult
people - I would never want to be someone who hurts anyone's feelings...but
I do have a very sarcastic/dry sense of humor, and I know mine doesn't
always come across how i wanted it to when I'm typing. So I don't post
often to these boards....but I do. And I read everything.
So....where do we buy asbestos underwear? I'm hoping I won't ever need a
pair...but you never know. I guess if I hang out long enough, I might!! I
look forward to it. Bring it on!
....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in the
middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
extinguisher....
zorket
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mark Pepe wrote:
>
>
> I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers
> get insulted and don't stay on this list.
>
> Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of
> everyone on this list.
> We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list
> was where part of the game was played.
> We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a
> statement.
>
> Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because
> they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a
> combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is
> who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
>
> Just an observation . . .
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mizscarlet731">
>
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion.
> Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the
> people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we
> play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but
> not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the
> only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the
> time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal
> attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do?
> Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my
> asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the
> big list of old.....
>
> -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com ,
> Debra Farrell wrote:
> >
> > Saying good-bye...
> > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative,
> hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's
> optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody
> forces anyone.
> >
> > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and
> learn something.
> > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described
> above.
> >
> > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
things fun. but things always "sound" different in print than they do when
someone says something...and if you don't know anything about the person it
is coming from it can often sound insulting. I don't intentionally insult
people - I would never want to be someone who hurts anyone's feelings...but
I do have a very sarcastic/dry sense of humor, and I know mine doesn't
always come across how i wanted it to when I'm typing. So I don't post
often to these boards....but I do. And I read everything.
So....where do we buy asbestos underwear? I'm hoping I won't ever need a
pair...but you never know. I guess if I hang out long enough, I might!! I
look forward to it. Bring it on!
....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in the
middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
extinguisher....
zorket
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mark Pepe
>
>
> I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers
> get insulted and don't stay on this list.
>
> Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of
> everyone on this list.
> We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list
> was where part of the game was played.
> We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a
> statement.
>
> Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because
> they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a
> combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is
> who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
>
> Just an observation . . .
>
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "mizscarlet731"
>
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion.
> Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the
> people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we
> play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but
> not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the
> only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the
> time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal
> attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do?
> Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my
> asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the
> big list of old.....
>
> -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Debra Farrell
> >
> > Saying good-bye...
> > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative,
> hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's
> optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody
> forces anyone.
> >
> > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and
> learn something.
> > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described
> above.
> >
> > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: sewsowbizzy (sowbiz@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 23:58:36 UTC
OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
ssb
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Thompson wrote:
>
> I'd have to wholeheartedly agree with Mark - the innuendo is what makes
> things fun. but things always "sound" different in print than they do when
> someone says something...and if you don't know anything about the person it
> is coming from it can often sound insulting. I don't intentionally insult
> people - I would never want to be someone who hurts anyone's feelings...but
> I do have a very sarcastic/dry sense of humor, and I know mine doesn't
> always come across how i wanted it to when I'm typing. So I don't post
> often to these boards....but I do. And I read everything.
> So....where do we buy asbestos underwear? I'm hoping I won't ever need a
> pair...but you never know. I guess if I hang out long enough, I might!! I
> look forward to it. Bring it on!
>
> ....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in the
> middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
>
> Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
> extinguisher....
>
> zorket
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mark Pepe wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers
> > get insulted and don't stay on this list.
> >
> > Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of
> > everyone on this list.
> > We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list
> > was where part of the game was played.
> > We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a
> > statement.
> >
> > Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because
> > they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a
> > combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is
> > who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
> >
> > Just an observation . . .
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mizscarlet731">
> >
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion.
> > Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the
> > people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we
> > play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but
> > not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the
> > only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the
> > time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> > OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal
> > attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do?
> > Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my
> > asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the
> > big list of old.....
> >
> > -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com ,
> > Debra Farrell wrote:
> > >
> > > Saying good-bye...
> > > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative,
> > hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's
> > optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody
> > forces anyone.
> > >
> > > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and
> > learn something.
> > > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described
> > above.
> > >
> > > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
ssb
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Thompson
>
> I'd have to wholeheartedly agree with Mark - the innuendo is what makes
> things fun. but things always "sound" different in print than they do when
> someone says something...and if you don't know anything about the person it
> is coming from it can often sound insulting. I don't intentionally insult
> people - I would never want to be someone who hurts anyone's feelings...but
> I do have a very sarcastic/dry sense of humor, and I know mine doesn't
> always come across how i wanted it to when I'm typing. So I don't post
> often to these boards....but I do. And I read everything.
> So....where do we buy asbestos underwear? I'm hoping I won't ever need a
> pair...but you never know. I guess if I hang out long enough, I might!! I
> look forward to it. Bring it on!
>
> ....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in the
> middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
>
> Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
> extinguisher....
>
> zorket
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mark Pepe
>
> >
> >
> > I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why boxers
> > get insulted and don't stay on this list.
> >
> > Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of
> > everyone on this list.
> > We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this list
> > was where part of the game was played.
> > We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a
> > statement.
> >
> > Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because
> > they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a
> > combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of who is
> > who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
> >
> > Just an observation . . .
> >
> > Mark
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "mizscarlet731"
> >
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion.
> > Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of the
> > people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game we
> > play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it but
> > not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was the
> > only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all the
> > time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> > OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal
> > attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I do?
> > Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my
> > asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit of the
> > big list of old.....
> >
> > -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Debra Farrell
> > >
> > > Saying good-bye...
> > > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty, negative,
> > hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's
> > optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site. Nobody
> > forces anyone.
> > >
> > > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends and
> > learn something.
> > > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described
> > above.
> > >
> > > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Elizabeth Thompson (zorket@gmail.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 20:33:56 UTC-04:00
Wait! I haven't "Donned" my asbestos panteloons yet!!!!
zorket
ps - you know...I've been accused of that before... something about dancing
naked in the woods....
On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 7:58 PM, sewsowbizzy
>
>
> OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
>
> ssb
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Elizabeth Thompson
> >
> > I'd have to wholeheartedly agree with Mark - the innuendo is what makes
> > things fun. but things always "sound" different in print than they do
> when
> > someone says something...and if you don't know anything about the person
> it
> > is coming from it can often sound insulting. I don't intentionally insult
> > people - I would never want to be someone who hurts anyone's
> feelings...but
> > I do have a very sarcastic/dry sense of humor, and I know mine doesn't
> > always come across how i wanted it to when I'm typing. So I don't post
> > often to these boards....but I do. And I read everything.
> > So....where do we buy asbestos underwear? I'm hoping I won't ever need a
> > pair...but you never know. I guess if I hang out long enough, I might!! I
> > look forward to it. Bring it on!
> >
> > ....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in the
> > middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
> >
> > Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
> > extinguisher....
> >
> > zorket
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Mark Pepe
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > I think, Miz Scarlet, that you might have caught the real reason why
> boxers
> > > get insulted and don't stay on this list.
> > >
> > > Back when it was the only game in town, we knew the personalities of
> > > everyone on this list.
> > > We recognized their tongue-in-cheek innuendo and recognized that this
> list
> > > was where part of the game was played.
> > > We thought a post was firstly a clue, then a joke and then possibly a
> > > statement.
> > >
> > > Anyone joining after that time, from AQ or wherever, missed out because
> > > they didn't know the players, or they didn't understand this list or a
> > > combination of the two. And those of us still here just lost track of
> who is
> > > who among some of the new letterboxers, I guess.
> > >
> > > Just an observation . . .
> > >
> > > Mark
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "mizscarlet731"
> > >
> > > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > > Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 3:51:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
> > > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> > >
> > > -I just don't get this, I thought we were having a valid disscussion.
> > > Nothing compared to the flames of the past. I'm familar with most of
> the
> > > people who were posting and know they care about this silly little game
> we
> > > play with Tupperware. Do I agree with everything being said, some of it
> but
> > > not all. AQ has diluted the power of this list, when I joined it was
> the
> > > only game in town. I guess if you want rainbows sweetness and light all
> the
> > > time there's a AQ chat group for that.
> > > OK, that sounds a little harsh. I do not mean anything as a personal
> > > attack, I'm just a ittle frustrated with the whole mess. So what do I
> do?
> > > Delete and step away from the keyboard? Push the send button and don my
> > > asbestos underwear? Go find a road kill lemur to sling. In the spirit
> of the
> > > big list of old.....
> > >
> > > -- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > > Debra Farrell
> > > >
> > > > Saying good-bye...
> > > > One of the reasons I like AQ better is because of the nasty,
> negative,
> > > hateful people on this list. As far as Ryan making money goes - it's
> > > optional whether or not you buy a Premium Membership on that site.
> Nobody
> > > forces anyone.
> > > >
> > > > I joined this list awhile back because I thought I could make friends
> and
> > > learn something.
> > > > I did learn something - too many of the people here are as described
> > > above.
> > > >
> > > > Will see you nice folks on AQ.
> > > > > http://www.sourcescns.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: mizscarlet731 (mizscarlet731@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-31 02:10:38 UTC
Not that I'm the world's best speller ,but it's Wiccan.
> >
> >
> > OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
> >
> > >
RE: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Debbie Kotlarek (kotlarek@wi.rr.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 21:21:00 UTC-05:00
Wicked Wiccan over the wick.
_____
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of mizscarlet731
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:11 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Not that I'm the world's best speller ,but it's Wiccan.
> >
> >
> > OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
> >
> > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
_____
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of mizscarlet731
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 9:11 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Not that I'm the world's best speller ,but it's Wiccan.
> >
> >
> > OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
> >
> > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-07-30 19:54:30 UTC-07:00
LonDon?
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, gwendontoo wrote:
From: gwendontoo
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:57 PM
don my asbestos underwear
Please use a Capital when using my name.
Don
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- On Thu, 7/30/09, gwendontoo
From: gwendontoo
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 3:57 PM
don my asbestos underwear
Please use a Capital when using my name.
Don
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Mark Pepe (mjpepe1@comcast.net) |
Date: 2009-07-30 23:10:47 UTC-04:00
Be happy she got even close! You know how her memory is . . .
Or isn't!
:-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of mizscarlet731
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:11 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Not that I'm the world's best speller ,but it's Wiccan.
> >
> >
> > OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
> >
> > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Or isn't!
:-)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]
On Behalf Of mizscarlet731
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2009 10:11 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Not that I'm the world's best speller ,but it's Wiccan.
> >
> >
> > OMG she's a wicken hopping over flames !!!
> >
> > >
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Jan (janila@iwon.com) |
Date: 2009-07-31 11:37:10 UTC
Coming out of lurkerdom and Donning Mizscarlet's armored underwear and
building on LB's comments, wouldn't it be wonderful to make money doing
something that we love? I am not a fan of AQ and I have chosen to show
it by not paying to belong to it but there are reasons that I still use
it- I can access it from work being the main one. But I have to admit
to a fair amount of envy when I think about making a living doing what I
love, dressing in comfy clothes (probably sometimes PJs) to do it, being
adored by thousands of people who think that letterboxing is sending
LTCs and carrying around Beanie Babies, perhaps getting tax writeoffs
for attending gatherings in every interesting part of the United States.
What a life!
Jan
Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: TrailTroll (kanderson2000@aol.com) |
Date: 2009-07-31 12:01:30 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Elizabeth Thompson wrote:
>
> ....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in
> the middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
>
> Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
> extinguisher....
>
> zorket
>
I'm one who continues to read but rarely posts. Just when I was beginning to tire of the bickering again, I get this - a mental picture of somebody in asbestos underwear hopping over a candle in their kitchen, holding a fire extinguisher! Cracked me up totally. Thanks for a Friday morning giggle, zorket. Now let's all get out there and box!
TrailTroll
>
> ....she says practicing hopping over a small candle flame planted in
> the middle of the kitchen floor.... ;)
>
> Happy Boxing!! Or Flame Hopping!!! ...now....where'd I put that
> extinguisher....
>
> zorket
>
I'm one who continues to read but rarely posts. Just when I was beginning to tire of the bickering again, I get this - a mental picture of somebody in asbestos underwear hopping over a candle in their kitchen, holding a fire extinguisher! Cracked me up totally. Thanks for a Friday morning giggle, zorket. Now let's all get out there and box!
TrailTroll
Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: rscarpen (riskynil@gmail.com) |
Date: 2009-08-05 02:00:13 UTC
> the perception I have is that he is merely bowing to market forces
> (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties,
> boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider
> letterboxing!", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying
> customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an
> excellent job creating it.
Actually, the reason is far more pragmatic than that. =) I added support for those other types of activities before there ever was a premium membership option. Not because I particularly liked them, but rather because until I did, people started listing every friggin' thing as a mystery letterbox. "It's a hitchhiker--I'll just list it as a mystery box." "It's a virtual--I'll just list it as a mystery box."
Not only did it clutter up the mystery searches with boxes that weren't even real boxes, but it forced them down everyone's throat whether they wanted it or not. By segregating them out, it's easier to ignore them (which was my primarily motivation).
However, unlike many folks, I don't have anything against people who want to participate in such activities. I don't understand it myself, but I don't really care if others want to play that game. Just so long as it doesn't get mixed up with the stuff I *do* want to do.
It wasn't a problem limited to just Atlas Quest, either. That was the reason Choi added the "traveller" option to LbNA. People had this insistent urge to list stuff as mystery boxes that really weren't mystery boxes, and eventually it's just easier to segregate them out. I don't think the "traveller" option gets used a whole lot anymore, but I suspect that's largely because AQ has taken the pressure off of LbNA to support that option.
I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, but there are market forces at work when I decide what to support or not on AQ. If enough people want something, it gets increasingly hard to say no. They'll use and abuse features in ways that were never intended, causing other problems. I'm currently looking to offload virtuals from Atlas Quest completely because they've grown problematic with the sheer numbers people can list and find in such a short period of time. (A decision which has cost me at least one premium member and certainly a lot of grief by many others.)
It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and why your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass is half empty kind of attitude to have. For those who use and prefer LbNA, aren't you *glad* that AQ is hosting almost all of the "non letterboxes" rather than LbNA? Without AQ, there would be a heck of a lot more people posting hitchhikers, virtuals, personal travelers, and so forth on LbNA. There would be far more talk about those on the Yahoo Groups than there currently is. The fact that AQ lives helps LbNA stay closer to its roots.
Had I put my programming efforts into LbNA instead, it would probably look a more like AQ does today. I've always hated how the Yahoo Groups worked, and I would have been pushing to take it "in house." (If you searched these archives, you could probably find posts by me even suggesting as much.)
> Why has the the general population just excepted that one person
> making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future
> of what letterboxing is and will become?
I like this question. =) I'm not sure that the future of letterboxing is entirely in my hands, however. I probably have more influence than most, but I hardly have a monopoly or absolute control of the hobby either.
For years, when LbNA was the only game in town, there was very much an attitude "do it our way, or get lost." LbNA had a monopoly on letterboxing like geocaching.com did on geocaching. For those who agreed with the LbNA philosophy that nothing should ever change and everyone else can just jump in a lake--it was a great place to be. For those that didn't--I gave them an alternative. Just be glad AQ isn't the only game in town--at least you get to choose not to play. In the early days of LbNA, that choice wasn't there.
As for making a profit off of letterboxing, guilty as charged. A couple of points to keep in mind, however.
1. I don't see any of you working for free either. LbNA is run by volunteers. Part time. Atlas Quest is my job.
2. Keep in mind, I could easily double my yearly salary by shutting AQ down and going to work at a corporation. I earned more working at Intel ten years ago than I do running Atlas Quest today. It's not about the money for me. I develop Atlas Quest because I enjoy it. The fact I can earn a living from it is a nice bonus.
3. Premium memberships are optional. Everything anyone needs to actually letterbox is freely available, as it should be.
I'm not expecting anyone who hated AQ to suddenly have a change of heart, but whether you love it or hate it, at least you have options to use it or not. That's not a bad thing.
-- Ryan
> (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties,
> boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider
> letterboxing!", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying
> customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an
> excellent job creating it.
Actually, the reason is far more pragmatic than that. =) I added support for those other types of activities before there ever was a premium membership option. Not because I particularly liked them, but rather because until I did, people started listing every friggin' thing as a mystery letterbox. "It's a hitchhiker--I'll just list it as a mystery box." "It's a virtual--I'll just list it as a mystery box."
Not only did it clutter up the mystery searches with boxes that weren't even real boxes, but it forced them down everyone's throat whether they wanted it or not. By segregating them out, it's easier to ignore them (which was my primarily motivation).
However, unlike many folks, I don't have anything against people who want to participate in such activities. I don't understand it myself, but I don't really care if others want to play that game. Just so long as it doesn't get mixed up with the stuff I *do* want to do.
It wasn't a problem limited to just Atlas Quest, either. That was the reason Choi added the "traveller" option to LbNA. People had this insistent urge to list stuff as mystery boxes that really weren't mystery boxes, and eventually it's just easier to segregate them out. I don't think the "traveller" option gets used a whole lot anymore, but I suspect that's largely because AQ has taken the pressure off of LbNA to support that option.
I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, but there are market forces at work when I decide what to support or not on AQ. If enough people want something, it gets increasingly hard to say no. They'll use and abuse features in ways that were never intended, causing other problems. I'm currently looking to offload virtuals from Atlas Quest completely because they've grown problematic with the sheer numbers people can list and find in such a short period of time. (A decision which has cost me at least one premium member and certainly a lot of grief by many others.)
It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and why your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass is half empty kind of attitude to have. For those who use and prefer LbNA, aren't you *glad* that AQ is hosting almost all of the "non letterboxes" rather than LbNA? Without AQ, there would be a heck of a lot more people posting hitchhikers, virtuals, personal travelers, and so forth on LbNA. There would be far more talk about those on the Yahoo Groups than there currently is. The fact that AQ lives helps LbNA stay closer to its roots.
Had I put my programming efforts into LbNA instead, it would probably look a more like AQ does today. I've always hated how the Yahoo Groups worked, and I would have been pushing to take it "in house." (If you searched these archives, you could probably find posts by me even suggesting as much.)
> Why has the the general population just excepted that one person
> making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future
> of what letterboxing is and will become?
I like this question. =) I'm not sure that the future of letterboxing is entirely in my hands, however. I probably have more influence than most, but I hardly have a monopoly or absolute control of the hobby either.
For years, when LbNA was the only game in town, there was very much an attitude "do it our way, or get lost." LbNA had a monopoly on letterboxing like geocaching.com did on geocaching. For those who agreed with the LbNA philosophy that nothing should ever change and everyone else can just jump in a lake--it was a great place to be. For those that didn't--I gave them an alternative. Just be glad AQ isn't the only game in town--at least you get to choose not to play. In the early days of LbNA, that choice wasn't there.
As for making a profit off of letterboxing, guilty as charged. A couple of points to keep in mind, however.
1. I don't see any of you working for free either. LbNA is run by volunteers. Part time. Atlas Quest is my job.
2. Keep in mind, I could easily double my yearly salary by shutting AQ down and going to work at a corporation. I earned more working at Intel ten years ago than I do running Atlas Quest today. It's not about the money for me. I develop Atlas Quest because I enjoy it. The fact I can earn a living from it is a nice bonus.
3. Premium memberships are optional. Everything anyone needs to actually letterbox is freely available, as it should be.
I'm not expecting anyone who hated AQ to suddenly have a change of heart, but whether you love it or hate it, at least you have options to use it or not. That's not a bad thing.
-- Ryan
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 2009-08-04 23:00:49 UTC-04:00
> I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, [...]
> It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and
> why your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass
> is half empty kind of attitude to have.
Right, just like those who had a "Ravenhaus is the devil" attitude ;-)
RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) |
Date: 2009-08-05 06:46:48 UTC-05:00
And sometimes having two rather different systems helps marriages. :-)
I definitely prefer LbNA and do get frustrated with folks who post things
like personal travelers as letterboxes. OK, granted, they do sort of come
with a clue..........in that often a person has to solve some sort of riddle
or answer some sort of question..........but it's still something *mobile*
and doesn't belong listed with the regular letterboxes. And that's what
folks were beginning to do on LbNA -- list everything in capitivity as a
letterbox. And I'm not even interested in them in the first place, so I'm
always swearing under my breath at these things. I don't like indoor
letterboxes either where a finder just goes and gives a password and
receives the box. I'm incredibly focused on just what *I* like and I want
it how *I* like it. I doubt I'll ever change. :-)
To Caveman, on the other hand, it's *all* better than a hot fudge sundae.
He *loves* atlasquest. He loves the bells and whistles, he gets bored with
"only" following clues and finding letterboxes. He ooooohs and
aaaaaahhhhhhs over each little hitchhiker. He would do postal letterboxes
if I'd do it with him. He'd do gatherings if I'd do them with him.
That's his big problem. He wants us to do things together. I'm just not
interested in all those other things. So I kinda regret the day when
Caveman discovered what-it-is-that-we-do-out-there-in-the-woods. But he can
go on the computer and have atlasquest to amuse him whenever he needs a
"fix".
He even bought us a premium membership. Oh yahoo whipeeeeeee! But it keeps
him out of my hair, and *that* I'm all for.
We have a vacation coming up the third week in August, so now he's going to
try to use some sort of mapping thingee that's on atlasquest that finds
boxes along a travel route. I say just give me the maps and I'll figure it
out for myself, in a way that's part of the clues to me. But noooooo, we'll
be doing it the yahoo whipeeeeeee! way I guess. I can live with that.
Sometimes living with it is good for the marriage.
~~Mosey~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of rscarpen
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:00 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> the perception I have is that he is merely bowing to market forces
> (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties,
> boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider
> letterboxing!", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying
> customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an
> excellent job creating it.
Actually, the reason is far more pragmatic than that. =) I added support for
those other types of activities before there ever was a premium membership
option. Not because I particularly liked them, but rather because until I
did, people started listing every friggin' thing as a mystery letterbox.
"It's a hitchhiker--I'll just list it as a mystery box." "It's a
virtual--I'll just list it as a mystery box."
Not only did it clutter up the mystery searches with boxes that weren't even
real boxes, but it forced them down everyone's throat whether they wanted it
or not. By segregating them out, it's easier to ignore them (which was my
primarily motivation).
However, unlike many folks, I don't have anything against people who want to
participate in such activities. I don't understand it myself, but I don't
really care if others want to play that game. Just so long as it doesn't get
mixed up with the stuff I *do* want to do.
It wasn't a problem limited to just Atlas Quest, either. That was the reason
Choi added the "traveller" option to LbNA. People had this insistent urge to
list stuff as mystery boxes that really weren't mystery boxes, and
eventually it's just easier to segregate them out. I don't think the
"traveller" option gets used a whole lot anymore, but I suspect that's
largely because AQ has taken the pressure off of LbNA to support that
option.
I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, but
there are market forces at work when I decide what to support or not on AQ.
If enough people want something, it gets increasingly hard to say no.
They'll use and abuse features in ways that were never intended, causing
other problems. I'm currently looking to offload virtuals from Atlas Quest
completely because they've grown problematic with the sheer numbers people
can list and find in such a short period of time. (A decision which has cost
me at least one premium member and certainly a lot of grief by many others.)
It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and why
your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass is half
empty kind of attitude to have. For those who use and prefer LbNA, aren't
you *glad* that AQ is hosting almost all of the "non letterboxes" rather
than LbNA? Without AQ, there would be a heck of a lot more people posting
hitchhikers, virtuals, personal travelers, and so forth on LbNA. There would
be far more talk about those on the Yahoo Groups than there currently is.
The fact that AQ lives helps LbNA stay closer to its roots.
Had I put my programming efforts into LbNA instead, it would probably look a
more like AQ does today. I've always hated how the Yahoo Groups worked, and
I would have been pushing to take it "in house." (If you searched these
archives, you could probably find posts by me even suggesting as much.)
> Why has the the general population just excepted that one person
> making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future
> of what letterboxing is and will become?
I like this question. =) I'm not sure that the future of letterboxing is
entirely in my hands, however. I probably have more influence than most, but
I hardly have a monopoly or absolute control of the hobby either.
For years, when LbNA was the only game in town, there was very much an
attitude "do it our way, or get lost." LbNA had a monopoly on letterboxing
like geocaching.com did on geocaching. For those who agreed with the LbNA
philosophy that nothing should ever change and everyone else can just jump
in a lake--it was a great place to be. For those that didn't--I gave them an
alternative. Just be glad AQ isn't the only game in town--at least you get
to choose not to play. In the early days of LbNA, that choice wasn't there.
As for making a profit off of letterboxing, guilty as charged. A couple of
points to keep in mind, however.
1. I don't see any of you working for free either. LbNA is run by
volunteers. Part time. Atlas Quest is my job.
2. Keep in mind, I could easily double my yearly salary by shutting AQ down
and going to work at a corporation. I earned more working at Intel ten years
ago than I do running Atlas Quest today. It's not about the money for me. I
develop Atlas Quest because I enjoy it. The fact I can earn a living from it
is a nice bonus.
3. Premium memberships are optional. Everything anyone needs to actually
letterbox is freely available, as it should be.
I'm not expecting anyone who hated AQ to suddenly have a change of heart,
but whether you love it or hate it, at least you have options to use it or
not. That's not a bad thing.
-- Ryan
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
I definitely prefer LbNA and do get frustrated with folks who post things
like personal travelers as letterboxes. OK, granted, they do sort of come
with a clue..........in that often a person has to solve some sort of riddle
or answer some sort of question..........but it's still something *mobile*
and doesn't belong listed with the regular letterboxes. And that's what
folks were beginning to do on LbNA -- list everything in capitivity as a
letterbox. And I'm not even interested in them in the first place, so I'm
always swearing under my breath at these things. I don't like indoor
letterboxes either where a finder just goes and gives a password and
receives the box. I'm incredibly focused on just what *I* like and I want
it how *I* like it. I doubt I'll ever change. :-)
To Caveman, on the other hand, it's *all* better than a hot fudge sundae.
He *loves* atlasquest. He loves the bells and whistles, he gets bored with
"only" following clues and finding letterboxes. He ooooohs and
aaaaaahhhhhhs over each little hitchhiker. He would do postal letterboxes
if I'd do it with him. He'd do gatherings if I'd do them with him.
That's his big problem. He wants us to do things together. I'm just not
interested in all those other things. So I kinda regret the day when
Caveman discovered what-it-is-that-we-do-out-there-in-the-woods. But he can
go on the computer and have atlasquest to amuse him whenever he needs a
"fix".
He even bought us a premium membership. Oh yahoo whipeeeeeee! But it keeps
him out of my hair, and *that* I'm all for.
We have a vacation coming up the third week in August, so now he's going to
try to use some sort of mapping thingee that's on atlasquest that finds
boxes along a travel route. I say just give me the maps and I'll figure it
out for myself, in a way that's part of the clues to me. But noooooo, we'll
be doing it the yahoo whipeeeeeee! way I guess. I can live with that.
Sometimes living with it is good for the marriage.
~~Mosey~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of rscarpen
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:00 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> the perception I have is that he is merely bowing to market forces
> (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties,
> boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider
> letterboxing!", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying
> customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an
> excellent job creating it.
Actually, the reason is far more pragmatic than that. =) I added support for
those other types of activities before there ever was a premium membership
option. Not because I particularly liked them, but rather because until I
did, people started listing every friggin' thing as a mystery letterbox.
"It's a hitchhiker--I'll just list it as a mystery box." "It's a
virtual--I'll just list it as a mystery box."
Not only did it clutter up the mystery searches with boxes that weren't even
real boxes, but it forced them down everyone's throat whether they wanted it
or not. By segregating them out, it's easier to ignore them (which was my
primarily motivation).
However, unlike many folks, I don't have anything against people who want to
participate in such activities. I don't understand it myself, but I don't
really care if others want to play that game. Just so long as it doesn't get
mixed up with the stuff I *do* want to do.
It wasn't a problem limited to just Atlas Quest, either. That was the reason
Choi added the "traveller" option to LbNA. People had this insistent urge to
list stuff as mystery boxes that really weren't mystery boxes, and
eventually it's just easier to segregate them out. I don't think the
"traveller" option gets used a whole lot anymore, but I suspect that's
largely because AQ has taken the pressure off of LbNA to support that
option.
I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, but
there are market forces at work when I decide what to support or not on AQ.
If enough people want something, it gets increasingly hard to say no.
They'll use and abuse features in ways that were never intended, causing
other problems. I'm currently looking to offload virtuals from Atlas Quest
completely because they've grown problematic with the sheer numbers people
can list and find in such a short period of time. (A decision which has cost
me at least one premium member and certainly a lot of grief by many others.)
It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and why
your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass is half
empty kind of attitude to have. For those who use and prefer LbNA, aren't
you *glad* that AQ is hosting almost all of the "non letterboxes" rather
than LbNA? Without AQ, there would be a heck of a lot more people posting
hitchhikers, virtuals, personal travelers, and so forth on LbNA. There would
be far more talk about those on the Yahoo Groups than there currently is.
The fact that AQ lives helps LbNA stay closer to its roots.
Had I put my programming efforts into LbNA instead, it would probably look a
more like AQ does today. I've always hated how the Yahoo Groups worked, and
I would have been pushing to take it "in house." (If you searched these
archives, you could probably find posts by me even suggesting as much.)
> Why has the the general population just excepted that one person
> making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future
> of what letterboxing is and will become?
I like this question. =) I'm not sure that the future of letterboxing is
entirely in my hands, however. I probably have more influence than most, but
I hardly have a monopoly or absolute control of the hobby either.
For years, when LbNA was the only game in town, there was very much an
attitude "do it our way, or get lost." LbNA had a monopoly on letterboxing
like geocaching.com did on geocaching. For those who agreed with the LbNA
philosophy that nothing should ever change and everyone else can just jump
in a lake--it was a great place to be. For those that didn't--I gave them an
alternative. Just be glad AQ isn't the only game in town--at least you get
to choose not to play. In the early days of LbNA, that choice wasn't there.
As for making a profit off of letterboxing, guilty as charged. A couple of
points to keep in mind, however.
1. I don't see any of you working for free either. LbNA is run by
volunteers. Part time. Atlas Quest is my job.
2. Keep in mind, I could easily double my yearly salary by shutting AQ down
and going to work at a corporation. I earned more working at Intel ten years
ago than I do running Atlas Quest today. It's not about the money for me. I
develop Atlas Quest because I enjoy it. The fact I can earn a living from it
is a nice bonus.
3. Premium memberships are optional. Everything anyone needs to actually
letterbox is freely available, as it should be.
I'm not expecting anyone who hated AQ to suddenly have a change of heart,
but whether you love it or hate it, at least you have options to use it or
not. That's not a bad thing.
-- Ryan
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
[LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-08-05 14:17:49 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
> Right, just like those who had a "Ravenhaus is the devil" attitude ;-)
>
I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
Don
> Right, just like those who had a "Ravenhaus is the devil" attitude ;-)
>
I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
Don
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 2009-08-05 10:28:29 UTC-04:00
> I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
And I don't see your point.
The actual point was disparaging other web sites, not advertising them.
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-08-05 07:39:40 UTC-07:00
Well, one would hope not, this many years after its "grand opening"! =)
Sheba
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, gwendontoo wrote:
I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sheba
--- On Wed, 8/5/09, gwendontoo
I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-08-05 14:41:39 UTC
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, Randy Hall wrote:
>
>
> > I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
>
> And I don't see your point.
>
> The actual point was disparaging other web sites, not advertising them.
>
I thought you made a comparison...AQ to Letterboxing World or Ryan to Steve. Sorry if I misunderstood.
To follow up on my post in case I didn't misunderstand, I think the self promotion in each and every post Steve made was and is quite different then those that Ryan makes, but I guess that is perception of the reader.
Don
>
>
> > I don't see the multitude of posts each day with an ad at the bottom touting AQ.
>
> And I don't see your point.
>
> The actual point was disparaging other web sites, not advertising them.
>
I thought you made a comparison...AQ to Letterboxing World or Ryan to Steve. Sorry if I misunderstood.
To follow up on my post in case I didn't misunderstand, I think the self promotion in each and every post Steve made was and is quite different then those that Ryan makes, but I guess that is perception of the reader.
Don
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Randy Hall (randy@mapsurfer.com) |
Date: 2009-08-05 11:25:51 UTC-04:00
> I thought you made a comparison...AQ to Letterboxing World or Ryan to Steve.
> Sorry if I misunderstood.
It was more just a good-natured poke at Ryan in response to his comments
about those who disparage AQ, given the history of opposition to
Letterboxing World. Not a big deal.
> To follow up on my post in case I didn't misunderstand, I think the
> self promotion in each and every post Steve made was and is quite
different
> then those that Ryan makes, but I guess that is perception of the reader.
I don't disagree with that, tho likely we will disagree on why it
matters. As Ryan said, AQ is his business, and no one works for
free (I certainly don't, that's for sure, tho if I could afford to,
I would (that was one of my problems with being a webmaster at LbNA;
I simply wasn't wealthy enough to give away time and out-of-pocket
expenses to the cause, especially when I came to believe in the cause
less and less over time)). Likewise, no business I'm aware of
refrains from advertising its goods or services, and both Letterboxing
World and AQ have done so, just in different ways.
I guess those who are annoyed with a web site's advertising can boycott
it, and again let market forces decide. I know when I was younger, I
was annoyed with the advertising practices of a local gas refiner/
retailer, and refused to buy gas there. They are still in business,
despite my noble boycott, while, last I checked, Letterboxing World
was defunct. Perhaps annoyance with the advertising did have a
market-based effect, tho I tend to believe the reasons for its demise
were wholly unrelated.
But the real point is that things were different then. In those days,
commercialism of the hobby in and of itself was disparaged, now it is
accepted and supported. Therefore, advertising by one of these
businesses will likely be more accepted than it was then, and probably
seem less annoying (yes, a different semiotic frame of reference in
interpreting the same thing). If you go back even further, you should
see what Dr. Mings was subject to.
There will always be those who are annoyed with commercialism; those
who are should build what the market demands in a commercial-free
manner, if they want to, or otherwise accept it. AQ should not be
disparaged for LbNA's (or anyone else's) failure to do that, tho
when I was a webmaster I personally argued for either a purely
traditional model (and leave geocaching-lite to someone else), or
a geocaching-lite model, (commercial or donation-based to support
the expense), given that it was pretty obvious that someone was
going to do it no matter what.
Instead, I feel LbNA ended up in a no-mans land of being neither
traditional, or what the market really wanted and remaining the voice
of the hobby, which is fine also, for its operators and its users
if they are content with that state of affairs.
For my own part, I would have preferred a more mutual enterprise
and remaining a traditional game, with distributed rather than
centralized control, and leaving all the rest of that to Grounded,
Inc. A not for profit enterprise, but generating enough revenue to
cover expenses (liability insurance being the most significant,
followed by server hosting expenses, which, if done right, are well
above the average schmoe's means), so operators needn't be wealthy
in order to be operators. But it was not to be. And that's fine
also.
JMHO, of course, and just as a disclaimer, I am not intending to
disparage any web site or its operators. Its just the way I see
it, FWIW.
[LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-08-06 00:56:45 UTC
>
> I don't disagree with that, tho likely we will disagree on why it
> matters.
Randy I believe that you and I might agree on more than you think, and on the areas we don't we could certainly agree to disagree.
Don
> I don't disagree with that, tho likely we will disagree on why it
> matters.
Randy I believe that you and I might agree on more than you think, and on the areas we don't we could certainly agree to disagree.
Don
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: BullDawg (bulldawgva@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-08-09 04:53:11 UTC-07:00
I gotta chime in here...
Does AQ change the 'game'? I say yes. At the same time I don't understand what is wrong with change or why people are so against something evolving. No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves. I dont think a most of the things on AQ improve the game, but people need to be open to an expanding game. If you dont like it, dont' use it. Personally I would never give a penny to it, and do feel that one person is changing the direction of the hobby in general, but not for me personally...things evolve, thats how it goes
My bigger issue with the Ryan and AQ, is
~actually checking my email on AQ
~checking my IP address and confirming/denying to othersif I have othertrailnames
that is why i would not give a cent to AQ, and would not encourage others to.
As for Ryan making money doing this..that's the American way. I get the same servive whether I pay or not (well, icant get a pick in the yearly calendar,). Why would I pay for something, that somebody has done on their own? I have personallygotten 9-10 people to not renew their memberships, cause of how I was treated.If Ryan can get people to pay, good for him...more power to him. I think its a great job he has...
it seems people are stuck on the 'history' of the game, and sticking to its roots. Then can somebody explain something to me? I dont letterbox much anymore because of what I feel is a lack of effort by planters to plant letterboxes of quality...like to ones I believe started the hobby. Recently, I found a letterbox by a planter with 5+ years experience, and was hoping they would make effort. Upon finding the box, I wanted to vomit in it. It was the WORST stamp effort I have ever seen...seriously, like 4-5 speedball strokes and there you have it, a stamp for the woods. I don't think that was what the hobby is supposed to be, or what we are supposed to do with it, but it is done all the time.
Change isnt always good, but it is a fact of life
BullDawg
--- On Tue, 8/4/09, rscarpen wrote:
From: rscarpen
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:00 PM
> the perception I have is that he is merely bowing to market forces
> (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties,
> boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider
> letterboxing! ", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying
> customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an
> excellent job creating it.
Actually, the reason is far more pragmatic than that. =) I added support for those other types of activities before there ever was a premium membership option. Not because I particularly liked them, but rather because until I did, people started listing every friggin' thing as a mystery letterbox. "It's a hitchhiker-- I'll just list it as a mystery box." "It's a virtual--I'll just list it as a mystery box."
Not only did it clutter up the mystery searches with boxes that weren't even real boxes, but it forced them down everyone's throat whether they wanted it or not. By segregating them out, it's easier to ignore them (which was my primarily motivation).
However, unlike many folks, I don't have anything against people who want to participate in such activities. I don't understand it myself, but I don't really care if others want to play that game. Just so long as it doesn't get mixed up with the stuff I *do* want to do.
It wasn't a problem limited to just Atlas Quest, either. That was the reason Choi added the "traveller" option to LbNA. People had this insistent urge to list stuff as mystery boxes that really weren't mystery boxes, and eventually it's just easier to segregate them out. I don't think the "traveller" option gets used a whole lot anymore, but I suspect that's largely because AQ has taken the pressure off of LbNA to support that option.
I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, but there are market forces at work when I decide what to support or not on AQ. If enough people want something, it gets increasingly hard to say no. They'll use and abuse features in ways that were never intended, causing other problems. I'm currently looking to offload virtuals from Atlas Quest completely because they've grown problematic with the sheer numbers people can list and find in such a short period of time. (A decision which has cost me at least one premium member and certainly a lot of grief by many others.)
It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and why your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass is half empty kind of attitude to have. For those who use and prefer LbNA, aren't you *glad* that AQ is hosting almost all of the "non letterboxes" rather than LbNA? Without AQ, there would be a heck of a lot more people posting hitchhikers, virtuals, personal travelers, and so forth on LbNA. There would be far more talk about those on the Yahoo Groups than there currently is. The fact that AQ lives helps LbNA stay closer to its roots.
Had I put my programming efforts into LbNA instead, it would probably look a more like AQ does today. I've always hated how the Yahoo Groups worked, and I would have been pushing to take it "in house." (If you searched these archives, you could probably find posts by me even suggesting as much.)
> Why has the the general population just excepted that one person
> making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future
> of what letterboxing is and will become?
I like this question. =) I'm not sure that the future of letterboxing is entirely in my hands, however. I probably have more influence than most, but I hardly have a monopoly or absolute control of the hobby either.
For years, when LbNA was the only game in town, there was very much an attitude "do it our way, or get lost." LbNA had a monopoly on letterboxing like geocaching.com did on geocaching. For those who agreed with the LbNA philosophy that nothing should ever change and everyone else can just jump in a lake--it was a great place to be. For those that didn't--I gave them an alternative. Just be glad AQ isn't the only game in town--at least you get to choose not to play. In the early days of LbNA, that choice wasn't there.
As for making a profit off of letterboxing, guilty as charged. A couple of points to keep in mind, however.
1. I don't see any of you working for free either. LbNA is run by volunteers. Part time. Atlas Quest is my job.
2. Keep in mind, I could easily double my yearly salary by shutting AQ down and going to work at a corporation. I earned more working at Intel ten years ago than I do running Atlas Quest today. It's not about the money for me. I develop Atlas Quest because I enjoy it. The fact I can earn a living from it is a nice bonus.
3. Premium memberships are optional. Everything anyone needs to actually letterbox is freely available, as it should be.
I'm not expecting anyone who hated AQ to suddenly have a change of heart, but whether you love it or hate it, at least you have options to use it or not. That's not a bad thing.
-- Ryan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Does AQ change the 'game'? I say yes. At the same time I don't understand what is wrong with change or why people are so against something evolving. No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves. I dont think a most of the things on AQ improve the game, but people need to be open to an expanding game. If you dont like it, dont' use it. Personally I would never give a penny to it, and do feel that one person is changing the direction of the hobby in general, but not for me personally...things evolve, thats how it goes
My bigger issue with the Ryan and AQ, is
~actually checking my email on AQ
~checking my IP address and confirming/denying to othersif I have othertrailnames
that is why i would not give a cent to AQ, and would not encourage others to.
As for Ryan making money doing this..that's the American way. I get the same servive whether I pay or not (well, icant get a pick in the yearly calendar,). Why would I pay for something, that somebody has done on their own? I have personallygotten 9-10 people to not renew their memberships, cause of how I was treated.If Ryan can get people to pay, good for him...more power to him. I think its a great job he has...
it seems people are stuck on the 'history' of the game, and sticking to its roots. Then can somebody explain something to me? I dont letterbox much anymore because of what I feel is a lack of effort by planters to plant letterboxes of quality...like to ones I believe started the hobby. Recently, I found a letterbox by a planter with 5+ years experience, and was hoping they would make effort. Upon finding the box, I wanted to vomit in it. It was the WORST stamp effort I have ever seen...seriously, like 4-5 speedball strokes and there you have it, a stamp for the woods. I don't think that was what the hobby is supposed to be, or what we are supposed to do with it, but it is done all the time.
Change isnt always good, but it is a fact of life
BullDawg
--- On Tue, 8/4/09, rscarpen
From: rscarpen
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, August 4, 2009, 10:00 PM
> the perception I have is that he is merely bowing to market forces
> (or one can say, following the $). If the $ say, "we want cooties,
> boxing buddies and other things that purists may not consider
> letterboxing! ", Ryan has no choice but to not alienate a paying
> customer base. Money does talk, and it is his site and he does an
> excellent job creating it.
Actually, the reason is far more pragmatic than that. =) I added support for those other types of activities before there ever was a premium membership option. Not because I particularly liked them, but rather because until I did, people started listing every friggin' thing as a mystery letterbox. "It's a hitchhiker-- I'll just list it as a mystery box." "It's a virtual--I'll just list it as a mystery box."
Not only did it clutter up the mystery searches with boxes that weren't even real boxes, but it forced them down everyone's throat whether they wanted it or not. By segregating them out, it's easier to ignore them (which was my primarily motivation).
However, unlike many folks, I don't have anything against people who want to participate in such activities. I don't understand it myself, but I don't really care if others want to play that game. Just so long as it doesn't get mixed up with the stuff I *do* want to do.
It wasn't a problem limited to just Atlas Quest, either. That was the reason Choi added the "traveller" option to LbNA. People had this insistent urge to list stuff as mystery boxes that really weren't mystery boxes, and eventually it's just easier to segregate them out. I don't think the "traveller" option gets used a whole lot anymore, but I suspect that's largely because AQ has taken the pressure off of LbNA to support that option.
I know that a lot of people have an "AQ is the devil" kind of attitude, but there are market forces at work when I decide what to support or not on AQ. If enough people want something, it gets increasingly hard to say no. They'll use and abuse features in ways that were never intended, causing other problems. I'm currently looking to offload virtuals from Atlas Quest completely because they've grown problematic with the sheer numbers people can list and find in such a short period of time. (A decision which has cost me at least one premium member and certainly a lot of grief by many others.)
It's easy to say you don't like a site and point out all the flaws and why your favored site is better. That's fine, but it's very much a glass is half empty kind of attitude to have. For those who use and prefer LbNA, aren't you *glad* that AQ is hosting almost all of the "non letterboxes" rather than LbNA? Without AQ, there would be a heck of a lot more people posting hitchhikers, virtuals, personal travelers, and so forth on LbNA. There would be far more talk about those on the Yahoo Groups than there currently is. The fact that AQ lives helps LbNA stay closer to its roots.
Had I put my programming efforts into LbNA instead, it would probably look a more like AQ does today. I've always hated how the Yahoo Groups worked, and I would have been pushing to take it "in house." (If you searched these archives, you could probably find posts by me even suggesting as much.)
> Why has the the general population just excepted that one person
> making a profit off of our game been allowed to decide the future
> of what letterboxing is and will become?
I like this question. =) I'm not sure that the future of letterboxing is entirely in my hands, however. I probably have more influence than most, but I hardly have a monopoly or absolute control of the hobby either.
For years, when LbNA was the only game in town, there was very much an attitude "do it our way, or get lost." LbNA had a monopoly on letterboxing like geocaching.com did on geocaching. For those who agreed with the LbNA philosophy that nothing should ever change and everyone else can just jump in a lake--it was a great place to be. For those that didn't--I gave them an alternative. Just be glad AQ isn't the only game in town--at least you get to choose not to play. In the early days of LbNA, that choice wasn't there.
As for making a profit off of letterboxing, guilty as charged. A couple of points to keep in mind, however.
1. I don't see any of you working for free either. LbNA is run by volunteers. Part time. Atlas Quest is my job.
2. Keep in mind, I could easily double my yearly salary by shutting AQ down and going to work at a corporation. I earned more working at Intel ten years ago than I do running Atlas Quest today. It's not about the money for me. I develop Atlas Quest because I enjoy it. The fact I can earn a living from it is a nice bonus.
3. Premium memberships are optional. Everything anyone needs to actually letterbox is freely available, as it should be.
I'm not expecting anyone who hated AQ to suddenly have a change of heart, but whether you love it or hate it, at least you have options to use it or not. That's not a bad thing.
-- Ryan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Suzanne Coe (wilmcoe@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-08-09 09:33:02 UTC-07:00
Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg wrote:
No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg
No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: BullDawg (bulldawgva@yahoo.com) |
Date: 2009-08-09 17:04:03 UTC-07:00
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged this game forever
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Suzanne Coe wrote:
From: Suzanne Coe
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg wrote:
No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Suzanne Coe
From: Suzanne Coe
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg
No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-08-10 00:36:50 UTC
With much of life....
One persons trash is another persons treasure.
Don
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, BullDawg wrote:
>
> in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged this game forever
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Suzanne Coe wrote:
>
>
> From: Suzanne Coe
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
>
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg wrote:
> No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
One persons trash is another persons treasure.
Don
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, BullDawg
>
> in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged this game forever
>
>
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, Suzanne Coe
>
>
> From: Suzanne Coe
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
>
> --- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg
> No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Dave & Deanne (dave.deanne@verizon.net) |
Date: 2009-08-09 20:40:51 UTC-04:00
guess it's time to run with scissors...
the lazy letterboxer
----- Original Message -----
From: BullDawg
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged this game forever
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Suzanne Coe wrote:
From: Suzanne Coe
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg wrote:
No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the lazy letterboxer
----- Original Message -----
From: BullDawg
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged this game forever
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, Suzanne Coe
From: Suzanne Coe
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, August 9, 2009, 12:33 PM
Well, _sometimes_ it improves. But sometimes "New & Improved" on the packaging just means they found a way to charge you more for it. =)
--- On Sun, 8/9/09, BullDawg
No 'game' ever stays the same, it usually improves.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) |
Date: 2009-08-09 20:00:08 UTC-05:00
over a high cliff..............
~~Mosey~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
guess it's time to run with scissors...
the lazy letterboxer
----- Original Message -----
From: BullDawg
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
this game forever
~~Mosey~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
guess it's time to run with scissors...
the lazy letterboxer
----- Original Message -----
From: BullDawg
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
this game forever
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Dave & Deanne (dave.deanne@verizon.net) |
Date: 2009-08-09 21:02:11 UTC-04:00
wearing banana peel slippers...
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxx
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
over a high cliff..............
~~Mosey~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
guess it's time to run with scissors...
the lazy letterboxer
----- Original Message -----
From: BullDawg
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
this game forever
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message -----
From: xxxxxxxx
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
over a high cliff..............
~~Mosey~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
guess it's time to run with scissors...
the lazy letterboxer
----- Original Message -----
From: BullDawg
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
this game forever
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-08-10 01:16:53 UTC
Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne" wrote:
>
> wearing banana peel slippers...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xxxxxxxx
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> over a high cliff..............
>
> ~~Mosey~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> guess it's time to run with scissors...
> the lazy letterboxer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BullDawg
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> this game forever
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne"
>
> wearing banana peel slippers...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xxxxxxxx
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> over a high cliff..............
>
> ~~Mosey~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> guess it's time to run with scissors...
> the lazy letterboxer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BullDawg
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> this game forever
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Dave & Deanne (dave.deanne@verizon.net) |
Date: 2009-08-09 21:26:57 UTC-04:00
and suddenly realizing your parachute was an afterthought but then looking down you saw...
----- Original Message -----
From: gwendontoo
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:16 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne" wrote:
>
> wearing banana peel slippers...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xxxxxxxx
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> over a high cliff..............
>
> ~~Mosey~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> guess it's time to run with scissors...
> the lazy letterboxer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BullDawg
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> this game forever
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message -----
From: gwendontoo
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:16 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne"
>
> wearing banana peel slippers...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: xxxxxxxx
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> over a high cliff..............
>
> ~~Mosey~~
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> guess it's time to run with scissors...
> the lazy letterboxer
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: BullDawg
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
> in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> this game forever
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: gwendontoo (foxsecurity@earthlink.net) |
Date: 2009-08-10 01:32:20 UTC
that someone moved the story to...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nobodyhome/messages
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne" wrote:
>
> and suddenly realizing your parachute was an afterthought but then looking down you saw...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gwendontoo
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne" wrote:
> >
> > wearing banana peel slippers...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: xxxxxxxx
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> >
> > over a high cliff..............
> >
> > ~~Mosey~~
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > guess it's time to run with scissors...
> > the lazy letterboxer
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BullDawg
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> > this game forever
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nobodyhome/messages
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne"
>
> and suddenly realizing your parachute was an afterthought but then looking down you saw...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gwendontoo
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne"
> >
> > wearing banana peel slippers...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: xxxxxxxx
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> >
> > over a high cliff..............
> >
> > ~~Mosey~~
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > guess it's time to run with scissors...
> > the lazy letterboxer
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BullDawg
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> > this game forever
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: Dave & Deanne (dave.deanne@verizon.net) |
Date: 2009-08-09 21:34:45 UTC-04:00
a Mattress World commercial...whew....
----- Original Message -----
From: gwendontoo
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
that someone moved the story to...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nobodyhome/messages
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne" wrote:
>
> and suddenly realizing your parachute was an afterthought but then looking down you saw...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gwendontoo
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne" wrote:
> >
> > wearing banana peel slippers...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: xxxxxxxx
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> >
> > over a high cliff..............
> >
> > ~~Mosey~~
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > guess it's time to run with scissors...
> > the lazy letterboxer
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BullDawg
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> > this game forever
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
----- Original Message -----
From: gwendontoo
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
that someone moved the story to...
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nobodyhome/messages
--- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne"
>
> and suddenly realizing your parachute was an afterthought but then looking down you saw...
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: gwendontoo
> To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:16 PM
> Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
>
>
> Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
>
> --- In letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com, "Dave & Deanne"
> >
> > wearing banana peel slippers...
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: xxxxxxxx
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:00 PM
> > Subject: RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> >
> > over a high cliff..............
> >
> > ~~Mosey~~
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Dave & Deanne
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:41 PM
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > guess it's time to run with scissors...
> > the lazy letterboxer
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: BullDawg
> > To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:04 PM
> > Subject: Re: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
> >
> > in this case, it has not improved....bells and whistles have damaged
> > this game forever
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
RE: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
From: xxxxxxxx (BrighidFarm@comcast.net) |
Date: 2009-08-09 21:00:34 UTC-05:00
Nooooooooooooooonononono! Caveman is scaired of bears!
He'd probably be OK with "Lions and Tigers and Teddies....oh my! tho.
~~Mosey (& maybe not Caveman)~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gwendontoo
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:17 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!
He'd probably be OK with "Lions and Tigers and Teddies....oh my! tho.
~~Mosey (& maybe not Caveman)~~
-----Original Message-----
From: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of gwendontoo
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 8:17 PM
To: letterbox-usa@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [LbNA] Re: Humpday Question of the Week - LB Future
Yelling "Lions,Tigers and Bears...oh my!